Lis Kramer
Tell us about yourself!
I’m currently a senior lecturer at the University of NSW in Sydney in the School of Social Sciences. I was born in Melbourne but grew up across a few different places including New Zealand, the US, Medan and Jakarta before my family finally settled in Sydney. I did a double Science/Arts degree majoring in Geography, Asian Studies and Indonesian Studies. Between completing my bachelor’s degree and going back to university to complete my Honours thesis and then my PhD, I worked in the public service, as an international development consultant and as an ESL teacher.
Where does your interest in Indonesia stem from?
My mother is Indonesian and both my parents have long been involved in the Indonesian community in Sydney. I can’t say there was ever a time that Indonesia was foreign to me or that I had an epiphany where I thought “oh, I should study Indonesia.” It’s always felt like a second home, though one that I have to navigate through the liminality of having a foot in two worlds. In an academic sense, it was during my undergraduate studies when I picked up Indonesian Studies and had phenomenal teachers who were really engaging and encouraged us to try and understand Indonesia through its literature and politics. I still remember the feeling of triumph from reading my first novel entirely in Indonesia, Saman by Ayu Utami. It’s still one of my favourite books to this day.
What is the nature of your engagement with Indonesia – are you an academic, a professional, an alumni?
I’m an academic and the bulk of my research focuses on Indonesia. At the moment I’m working on two separate projects related to tobacco and therapeutic opioid use in Indonesia. But even if I wasn’t doing research in Indonesia I think I’d still be travelling there regularly for new adventures and to visit friends and family.
Have you ever been to an Indonesia Council Open Conference and if so, what is your fondest memory?
Yes, the very first conference I ever presented at was the ICOC in 2009, while I was an Honours student. I was petrified and probably over-rehearsed my paper. But it was a really friendly and supportive atmosphere. Because there was no fee it felt like anyone who was interested could attend and it wasn’t just academics there. I remember being on a panel about Aceh (my Honours thesis was about post-conflict corruption in Aceh) and it was such a relief to have it over and done with and then be able to relax at the dinner afterwards.
How do you think organisations like Indonesia Council can improve Australia-Indonesia relations?
I think there will always be a space for organisations that bring people with common interests together. In terms of IC, giving academics another channel to build and form relationships with each other can only be a good thing, whether it’s meeting that one person who becomes your lifelong collaborator or someone who has the latest information on how to get the right permissions and visas (on both sides!). With more members and a bigger organisation we can also build momentum to collectively advocate for Indonesian studies in Australia (which, sadly, is much needed).
What are some of the challenges and opportunities in the Indonesia-Australia relationship?
There are so many opportunities and it depends on your interests what you would focus on. Of course, there are economic and trade opportunities given the close proximity of the two countries. Beyond that there are opportunities for all types of exchanges—scientific knowledge and research, culture, education.
It goes without saying that there are a lot of challenges too. But I think the fundamental challenge is, at a very basic level, understanding each other—and this goes both ways. It’s not simply that the average Australian (or the average Australian politician or bureaucrat, for that matter) doesn’t have a great grasp of Indonesia’s complex history, politics and the kinds of social dynamics that exist there. It’s also that most Indonesians don’t know much about Australia, either.
Tell us about your favourite Indonesian food experience
Oh so many amazing food experiences, it would probably be easier to list my bad experiences, which are much fewer! I’m lucky that one of my friends is a food and menu consultant and she used to travel around Indonesia trying local cuisines to bring back to Jakarta and adapt for a well-known restaurant called Kaum. This was back in its early days. Sometimes she’d let us test the new dishes before they made it onto the menu and every time it was a hit.
Do you speak Indonesian and where did you start learning it?
I have a rather complicated relationship with Indonesian language. Growing up we did sometimes speak Indonesian at home but we mostly communicated in English and my education was 100% in English so I am not a native speaker. When we moved back to Australia, I studied Indonesian for the HSC and then at university. Later, I did BIPA 1 & 2 just before starting my PhD fieldwork. I would not say that I’m completely fluent but I can navigate most situations without too much stress.
What’s your favourite Indonesian food and why?
If you ask me right now: Manadonese food. I had an amazing Manadonese lunch last week and I love the spiciness and flavours. If you ask me tomorrow, I might have a different answer.
What’s your favourite Indonesian music/song/writer?
This is tough so I’ll just give you my karaoke go to list is: Disco Lazy Time by Nidji, Yogyakarta by KLA Project and Dangdut is the Music of My Country by Project Pop. I’m definitely showing my age with that list.
What’s your favourite Indonesian idiom?
I feel like maybe someone has already given this one but I like nasi sudah jadi bubur (the rice has already become porridge). Besides being a very useful phrase, the imagery is so vivid and embodies exactly what you’re trying to get across.
[Last month’s PAY IT FORWARD question]:
Have you had any exciting encounters with Indonesian wildlife?
I’ve had some amazing experiences… Swimming with manta rays off Flores would be one. Also visiting the jellyfish lake and swimming amongst stingless jellyfish on Kakaban Island (off Kalimantan). Maratua Island (also off Kalimantan) for swimming with turtles and all kinds of sea creatures. Seeing orang utans and elephants up close at Bukit Lawang in Sumatra Utara. Being close to animals in their natural habitat is a big factor for me when deciding where to go on holiday in Indonesia!
?PAY IT FORWARD: Finally, it’s YOUR turn to ask a question…Please suggest a question we can ask our next member!
What’s the funniest thing you’ve ever seen online from Indonesia? (feel free to include a link if you have one)